Curse

awry · Dec 12, 2010, 06:38 AM // 06:38

one r/x, x/r w/ symbiosis/eoe(human mobs), 7x party members monk + non monk ALL w/ unyielding aura, enchant heavy team, 40/40 nec death nova spam, etc, how would you die, unless all simultaneously? Even with high dp, you can manage to cast the 1/4 sec UA. UA resurrects somebody else if you die while enchanted. You resurrect someone w/ full energy so they always have e to cast ua. Hero AI make it such that they cast immediately to rez. the slow enemy ai makes it such that you always have a window for brief attack. As long as you make sure at 60 percent dp your energy does not bar your heroes from casting their spells, I can see a fight of attrition that the enemy cannot win, especially if you have a few heros spamming prot spirit+covers enchants.

On paper I think this would be unkillable and you can adjust your team to provide a fast burst of damage. Does anyone see any problems with this line of reasoning? Oh and just to clear up on potential misinterpretations, the party members carrying UA will not necessarily need to carry heal skills. It can be used soley for its rez purposes with no drawback on attribute req, 10 sec recharge and full e, full health return.

Haggis of Doom · Dec 12, 2010, 07:03 AM // 07:03

At 60 DP your party is kicked out of the vq.

awry · Dec 12, 2010, 07:06 AM // 07:06

That is only if they wipe first (everyone on the floor dead). That is only if you stay with them. Hell you can flag them and stay away afk thus having no dp, but that is moot as they have to wipe first before they are kicked out.

reaper with no name · Dec 12, 2010, 08:45 AM // 08:45

You've forgotten one crucial detail:

UA has a 10 second recharge time. That won't be enough for the constant rezzing your idea will require once the party hits 60 DP.

awry · Dec 12, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

You've forgotten one crucial detail:

UA has a 10 second recharge time. That won't be enough for the constant rezzing your idea will require once the party hits 60 DP.

I didn't think that 10 seconds was that bad, but assuming it is. Then the x/r or r/x can bring quickening zephyr. All the better to drain enemies of e, whereas if you're dying and rezzing that much you would always regain energy to make the drawback very small. Dump energy, dump dmg load, die, rez someone else, repeat. +symbiosis can rack up a lot of health very quick with fast enchantments.

Ideally you would be soul twister rit/r that stands in background.

Nijntjuh · Dec 12, 2010, 10:04 AM // 10:04

pve is easy dont waste all those slots on rezzes you wont need

reaper with no name · Dec 13, 2010, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by awry

I didn't think that 10 seconds was that bad, but assuming it is. Then the x/r or r/x can bring quickening zephyr. All the better to drain enemies of e, whereas if you're dying and rezzing that much you would always regain energy to make the drawback very small. Dump energy, dump dmg load, die, rez someone else, repeat. +symbiosis can rack up a lot of health very quick with fast enchantments.

Ideally you would be soul twister rit/r that stands in background.

The spirit of Quickening Zephyr will be killed by the monsters, as it is squishy and zephy.

A problem I didn't mention before is the problem of monsters that strip enchantments. UA is an enchantment, you know.

Your team build expects (nay, requires) the team to hit 60 DP. If any party member dies without UA up, that team member cannot be resurrected without someone else losing their UA and facing the same problem.

It's not going to take the monsters 10 seconds to kill someone who has 60 DP. And they only have to do it once to start the domino effect.

Let me paint you a picture:

Koss dies. He resurrects himself with his UA. His UA now needs 10 seconds to recharge.

Koss is quickly killed again by the same hammer warrior that made him bite the dust the first time. UA was not up. He cannot resurrect himself.

Livia uses her UA to resurrect Koss. She now has to wait 10 seconds before she can recast UA.

Unfortunately, Livia is then killed by an elementalist. Now both she and Koss are dead.

Sadly, a few seconds earlier, Gwen's UA was stripped by a mesmer with Shatter Enchantment. She cannot resurrect either of them for 10 seconds. She is then killed by the same mesmer.

...And so on and so forth, until the whole party is dead at 60 DP, and gets kicked from the instance.

awry · Dec 13, 2010, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The spirit of Quickening Zephyr will be killed by the monsters, as it is squishy and zephy.

A problem I didn't mention before is the problem of monsters that strip enchantments. UA is an enchantment, you know.

Your team build expects (nay, requires) the team to hit 60 DP. If any party member dies without UA up, that team member cannot be resurrected without someone else losing their UA and facing the same problem.

It's not going to take the monsters 10 seconds to kill someone who has 60 DP. And they only have to do it once to start the domino effect.

Let me paint you a picture:

Koss dies. He resurrects himself with his UA. His UA now needs 10 seconds to recharge.

Koss is quickly killed again by the same hammer warrior that made him bite the dust the first time. UA was not up. He cannot resurrect himself.

Livia uses her UA to resurrect Koss. She now has to wait 10 seconds before she can recast UA.

Unfortunately, Livia is then killed by an elementalist. Now both she and Koss are dead.

Sadly, a few seconds earlier, Gwen's UA was stripped by a mesmer with Shatter Enchantment. She cannot resurrect either of them for 10 seconds. She is then killed by the same mesmer.

...And so on and so forth, until the whole party is dead at 60 DP, and gets kicked from the instance.

Ideally you precast zephyr before charging into mob and away from the fighting.

Ua is an enchantment yes, but heros almost automatically dispell it. And one other point I would like to mention is that if it ends for whatever reason, if there is a party member dead it would rez that party member so there is not that much issue with ua being removed while a party member is dead as that would only trigger effect anyways.

Well your example only somewhat describes the situation. First off, I take offense to koss being there as a war would have a despicable energy pool to work with, but let's not go there. Second, I would say that having been in situations while i was vanquishing (lornar's pass, icedome, whatever) with near 60 percent dp on all members, I can attest that if heros are properly equipped they aren't insta gibbed as you might think, especially with PS. Melee enemies are slow to react and heros kite decently and casters will run out of energy. And the chain reaction, i can't say with any certainty about how it would develop, but if there are 7 heros with ua then as long as they aren't instagibbed all at the same time that means that UA is available 7 times in ten seconds from the start. You get 7 shots of UA, more if zephyr is up.

Well I'm thankful you're taking time out to respond, it's just theorycrafting and so I can't test it really, but I made the idea in mind for the purposes of dungeons with hard hitting mobs. I was thinking of a lazy playstyle where you could position your team, watch a youtube clip or something and then come back to see your enemies dead. I know this won't work for everything, as I've mentioned if you got some heavy AOE enemies that instakill everyone at roughly the same time, we've got a problem.

Kunder · Dec 13, 2010, 02:09 PM // 14:09

PvE is already easy enough to be 99% unkillable with any generic build, and in most areas you can already just run into the mob then alt-tab away while the h/h finishes it up. Why not take a build that can actually kill the enemies instead of making them die of boredom after 20 mins of smacking you around?

awry · Dec 13, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

PvE is already easy enough to be 99% unkillable with any generic build, and in most areas you can already just run into the mob then alt-tab away while the h/h finishes it up. Why not take a build that can actually kill the enemies instead of making them die of boredom after 20 mins of smacking you around?

99% of situations you say, how about hm dungeon clears? how using this as a team running tool? I'm the first one to say offense over defense and I admit that this isn't something to be general use everywhere, but I'm throwing this idea out that it might be very useful for the really difficult situations where you don't want to wipe.

reaper with no name · Dec 16, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Remember the situation I outlined above? Well, a HM dungeon that can beat standard hero builds would easily destroy a build like this.

Another Felldspar · Jan 12, 2011, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I did something similar to this for awhile and it works great, except you don't need 8 copies of UA -- 3 copies do the trick -- one for the player and 2 on heroes. You also (usually) need to pull the enemies to you instead of flagging heroes into the group. But even at this point, with only 3 heroes and henchies, most vanquishes can be completed without a problem. 60% DP doesn't happen because party wipes don't happen -- as soon as one goes down they're back up at full health and energy, and DP decreases very quickly on individual deaths with the amount of exp. gained in HM.

Once you bring monsters to the h/h group just step out of aggro and do whatever; h/h can handle pretty much any area. But, as I quickly learned, if you're bored and you don't really want to be playing GW the only thing worse is quasi-playing GW.